tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post1912246112429176441..comments2022-03-24T16:24:00.842-05:00Comments on Carmina Catulli: Week 16: Modelling the MessageBob Patrickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08291436751199050107noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-50298192568978722412007-05-13T20:42:00.000-05:002007-05-13T20:42:00.000-05:00In the beginning of Carmen 65, we learn about his ...In the beginning of Carmen 65, we learn about his brother's death. He is facing remorse for his brother, like in line 1 "cura dolore/ unremitting pain." He rejoices that he will never forget his brother and will always think about him. Line 9 says, "semper maesta tua carmina morte canam/I'll always sing solemn poems about your death." But most importantly, at the end of the poem he uses the Jesxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13582312856851563771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-9134254963912837642007-05-10T21:02:00.000-05:002007-05-10T21:02:00.000-05:00The first section of Carmen 65 outlines the loss o...The first section of Carmen 65 outlines the loss of Catullus' brother. He writes, "namque mei nuper Lethaeo in gurgite fratris<BR/>pallidulum manans alluit unda pedem" or, "for recently in the Lethanian whirlpool a wave flowed over the little pale feet of my brother." This is a very poetic way of saying that his brother died, and it carries with it undertones of death by drowning. <BR/>The secondKirrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01509047214802954313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-3679344377054665152007-05-10T19:05:00.000-05:002007-05-10T19:05:00.000-05:00Carmen 65 addresses the death of Catullus' brother...Carmen 65 addresses the death of Catullus' brother, and the great sorrow he experiences as a result of it. Carmen 65 is divided into three sections. There are transitions that Catullus makes in this poem that are in the beginning, middle, and the end. Catullus opens the poem saying the word etsi (although), and he follows by saying nec potis est dulcis Musarum expromere fetus mens animi (who am 5ABIbloodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17047432272968831644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-17368003418195218662007-05-09T20:46:00.000-05:002007-05-09T20:46:00.000-05:00Carmen 65 is an interesting poem. The way Catullus...Carmen 65 is an interesting poem. The way Catullus structures the lines to match what is happening in his life is unique. At the beginning, Catullus is addressing Hortalus about the death of his dearly loved brother, but then interrupts the grieving to tell Hortalus that he will send him the poems he requested (sed tamen in tantis maeroribus, Ortale, mitto haec expressa tibi carmina Battiadae.) Nathan W. Posthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03650306379238283153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-64284072436326352902007-05-08T21:04:00.000-05:002007-05-08T21:04:00.000-05:00The message in Carmen 65 is clearly divided into t...The message in Carmen 65 is clearly divided into three parts. The<BR/>beginning is an adversative clause mourning the death of Catullus's<BR/>brother- "namque mei nuper Lethaeo in gurgite fratris<BR/>pallidulum manans alluit unda pedem," or "For recently a weeping wave<BR/>washed over the pale little foot of my brother in the Lethean<BR/>whirlpool." Catullus' message in this beginning is clear; TIPviking8907https://www.blogger.com/profile/03874228062470552698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-39714330939782335622007-05-08T20:42:00.000-05:002007-05-08T20:42:00.000-05:00The poem begins with Catullus' cry for the loss of...The poem begins with Catullus' cry for the loss of his dear brother. "numquam ego te, vita frater amabilior,<BR/>aspiciam posthac?/will I, my brother who I hold closer than life, never see you again-after?" In the first eight lines or so, he beautifully describes what has left with his brother: Catullus' muse for thoughts that now "tantis fluctuat ipsa malis/flow like waves for troubles."<BR/>TheJennifer Wanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03812960324775087909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-28661985585463490072007-05-08T16:56:00.000-05:002007-05-08T16:56:00.000-05:00In Carmen 65, Catullus beautifully forges his writ...In Carmen 65, Catullus beautifully forges his writing to mirror his life and feelings. For the first 16 lines, Catullus pours out his grief over the loss of his "vita frater amabilior" (brother more loved than life - Line 16). Then, quite suddenly, these lines of beautiful tragedy are broken up by an interjection to Hortalus about his request for poetry. At first, this interruption seems to ruin Ian2https://www.blogger.com/profile/05728786944480667901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-64766520698167677792007-05-08T15:58:00.000-05:002007-05-08T15:58:00.000-05:00Catullus starts the poem in a tone that is greatly...Catullus starts the poem in a tone that is greatly grieved and he says that he is incapable of being inspired because of the degree of emotion he is suffering, as seen in lines 1-4 “Etsi me assiduo confectum cura dolore sevocat a doctis, Hortale, virginibus, nec potis est dulcis Musarum expromere fetus mens animi, tantis fluctuat ipsa malis--/ “Hortalus, although care calls an exhausted me away Wolf Angelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08010731833948888856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-25551339309145726092007-05-07T22:21:00.000-05:002007-05-07T22:21:00.000-05:00Catullus 65, read all the way through, can seem li...Catullus 65, read all the way through, can seem like an advertisement for the fact that Catullus does not have a poem for Hortalus. This is not saying that Catullus was not sincere about being upset for his brothers death he referes to his brother “vita frater amabilior” (My brother, dearer than life), but when he abruptly switches in the middle to telling Hortalus it is a little bizarre at firstI can't beleive magister is a Florida Gator!!!Thats whackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03254997200815980294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-40367164213380590782007-05-07T21:42:00.000-05:002007-05-07T21:42:00.000-05:00The first word of the poem (esti), is used as an a...The first word of the poem (esti), is used as an adversative so that the poet can express his feelings, then contrast his explanation. In the first section, Catullus explains that he "nec potis est dulcis Musarum expromere fetus mens animi," meaning, "And the mind of the soul is not able to bring out sweet inspirations of the muses." Catullus then continues questioning if he will ever see his chmathewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02046315740700379756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-32484770562403240922007-05-07T21:32:00.000-05:002007-05-07T21:32:00.000-05:00We know that his poem will deal with some kind of ...We know that his poem will deal with some kind of adversity from his first word "etsi" And IF. This is confirmed with the phrase " sed tamen" But HOWEVER. He sets up a huge if clause, only to let us know that the IF didnt come true, so however...Then he concludes his poem addressing Hortalus' "need" for more poems. He basically says i havent forgotten your request, ive just been a little ARP Rockerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07894618212427558948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-27627867056558339932007-05-07T21:26:00.000-05:002007-05-07T21:26:00.000-05:00Catullus models the message of his grief over the ...Catullus models the message of his grief over the loss of his brother in a couple of very important ways. First, he elaborates on how his brother’s death has exhausted him and has not allowed him to write poetry by removing him from the “learned maidens” or “cura sevocat confectum me a doctis virginibus nec potis est dulcis Musarum expromere fetus” or “care calls an exhausted me from the learnedjrog08https://www.blogger.com/profile/05960898925774178791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-3915872657230348772007-05-07T21:03:00.000-05:002007-05-07T21:03:00.000-05:00in carmen 65 catullus talks of the death of his br...in carmen 65 catullus talks of the death of his brother starting with the first word "esti" which means although. Catullus forms a segway into this poem by means of an adversative. in lines 2 and 3 Catullus states "nec potis est dulcis Musarum expromere fetus<BR/>mens animi" which can be translated as "and my mind cannot produce their sweet fruit". This makes claims that Catullus is unable to jimihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05342194582977393596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-9968783141256943412007-05-07T20:59:00.000-05:002007-05-07T20:59:00.000-05:00Carmen 65 certainly focuses on Catullus' brother, ...Carmen 65 certainly focuses on Catullus' brother, but other threads run through the poem as well. The first part is a reference to the Muses and the mention of the grief which plagues his heart and affects his writing. "Etsi me assiduo confectum cura dolore sevocat a doctis, Hortale, virginibus", or "Although a care with unrelenting grief prevents finished me from the learned maidens, Hortalus". Kelsey2https://www.blogger.com/profile/04815588509113339084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-59745165271503850822007-05-07T20:58:00.000-05:002007-05-07T20:58:00.000-05:00This poem is divided into three sections. In the b...This poem is divided into three sections. In the beginning, he starts with "etsi//although." Then he says," nec potis est dulcis Musarum expromere fetus mens animi// the mind of soul is unable to produce sweet inspiration of Muses." In here, he saying that he's in writer's block. However, he proves to everyone that he can still write. In the middle of the poem, he says, "sed tamen in tantis hyung02https://www.blogger.com/profile/13400976865289722855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-75312937952274241562007-05-07T20:33:00.000-05:002007-05-07T20:33:00.000-05:00The poem starts out with Catullus stating the prob...The poem starts out with Catullus stating the problem that he is not able write or produce anything inspiring, “Etsi me assiduo confectum cura dolore sevocat a doctis, Ortale, virginibus, nec potis est dulcis Musarum expromere fetus”(though through unremitting pain concern draws me, who am exhausted, from the Muses, and my mind cannot produce their sweet fruit). The first part sets up the khushbu2https://www.blogger.com/profile/15897924817654452698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-58486048128548915992007-05-07T20:27:00.000-05:002007-05-07T20:27:00.000-05:00Catullus breaks down this poem into three separate...Catullus breaks down this poem into three separate parts. In doing this Catullus models the human life. The beginning of a life, or birth. The middle of the life, the prime and the best part of life, and then the end; the rambling old man who is waiting for his death bed to come and take him away. <I> no harsh feelings for any old people that may be reading this. If however you think you are old,ryan2https://www.blogger.com/profile/02735339815761981653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-29015439464525750552007-05-07T20:12:00.000-05:002007-05-07T20:12:00.000-05:00THis poem seems to have three parts to it. The fir...THis poem seems to have three parts to it. The first part tells us that catullus is sad and depressed but we don't know why. It states:Etsi me assiduo confectum cura dolore<BR/>sevocat a doctis, Ortale, virginibus,<BR/>nec potis est dulcis Musarum expromere fetus<BR/>mens animi, tantis fluctuat ipsa malis and this translates to though through remitting pain, Hortalus, oncern draws me,<BR/>who am tram192https://www.blogger.com/profile/08073272948001696530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-23533725513016736792007-05-07T19:59:00.000-05:002007-05-07T19:59:00.000-05:00Catullus expresses his grief over the loss of his ...Catullus expresses his grief over the loss of his brother in three different ways in Carmen 65. First Catullus comments on how he is unable to write because the Muses no longer inspire him. "nec potis est dulcis Musarum expromere fetus mens animi" or "and the working of the mind is not possible to bring out sweet inspirations of the Muses." Catullus tells Hortalus of his relentless sorrows and Dr. Gregory Househttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09627336212619111476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-25670457695619604452007-05-07T19:14:00.000-05:002007-05-07T19:14:00.000-05:00Catullus' Carmen 65 is broken up into three parts....Catullus' Carmen 65 is broken up into three parts. <BR/>The poem begins with the word "etsi" or although, which hints that Catullus is trying to get over something that has happened in his life. <BR/>In the middle we find out what happened to Catullus-his brother died. We discover this when Catullus says "namque mei nuper Lethaeo in gurgite fratris<BR/>pallidulum manans alluit unda pedem" or "andwelchiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17731270928456057950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-57263213005738627122007-05-07T18:52:00.000-05:002007-05-07T18:52:00.000-05:00The first four lines of Carmen 65 are as follows: ...The first four lines of Carmen 65 are as follows: "Etsi me assiduo confectum cura dolore sevocat a doctis, Hortale, virginibus, nec potis est dulcis Musarum expromere fetus mens animi, tantis fluctuat ipsa malis" / "Although a care calls aside an exhausted me away from the learned maidens with a relentless sorrow, Hortalus, and the working of the mind is not able to bring out sweet inspirations LOLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460508518270424887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-12320553201051122912007-05-07T17:03:00.000-05:002007-05-07T17:03:00.000-05:00In Carmen 65, Catullus models his message in 3 par...In Carmen 65, Catullus models his message in 3 parts. First he starts out discussing his new pain that prevents him from writing in line 3. "nec potis est dulcis Musarum expromere fetus mens animi" which means, "the working of the mind is not possible to bring forth sweet inspirations of the muses." Nest Catullus moves into a stage where he describes the source of his pain to Hortalus, saying 82https://www.blogger.com/profile/06796483059545323677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-44604525379755694232007-05-07T16:25:00.000-05:002007-05-07T16:25:00.000-05:00In carmen 65 Catullus is describing his pain over ...In carmen 65 Catullus is describing his pain over his brother’s death. At the beginning he says that he is not able to write, and in lines 3-4 he continues with, “nec potis est dulcis Musarum expromere fetus mens animi / the workings of his mind are not able to bring forth the sweet inspirations of the Muses.” By saying that the death of his brother has made him unable to do what it is that he Jay2https://www.blogger.com/profile/00843269871852486838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-82549459373486164152007-05-07T14:56:00.000-05:002007-05-07T14:56:00.000-05:00Catullus begins with the adversative "etsi" which ...Catullus begins with the adversative "etsi" which means "although." This prepares the readers for the contrast that takes place mid-poem. His message in the beginning of the poem explains the sorrow he has over the loss of his brother when he says "numquam ego te, vita frater amabilior, aspiciam posthac," which translates to "will I never see you hereafter, brother dearer than life?" This Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02215772181793553921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8494764596446411627.post-43539296829602675202007-05-05T13:48:00.000-05:002007-05-05T13:48:00.000-05:00Catullus seems to break down Carmen 65 into three ...Catullus seems to break down Carmen 65 into three different sections in order to express the sorrow he feels over the loss of his brother. The first word of the poem (esti), is used as an adversative so that the poet can express his feelings, then contrast his explanation. In the first section, Catullus explains that he "nec potis est dulcis Musarum expromere fetus mens animi," meaning, "And the shockahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12440534474102079897noreply@blogger.com